Best way to control pump for SS low pressure functions...

[DavidM]

I need enlightenment;


1. >> one injector per function per bay.<< So, with 4 LP functions and 6 bays that is 24 injectors vs 4 flo jets and 4 hydrominders & Tanks and this is simpler because? In my experience injectors have been virtually trouble free - hydrominders and flojets are not incredibly problematic but injectors have been better.

2. >>Even pressure (Flojets tend to pulse)<< Like to hear from others. Due to volume FJ produces vs the .05 nozzle this is not something I experience at the bay. - Maybe it is something specific in our setup

3. >> more consistent mixing of chemistry<< This is a function of water pressure and can be solved with a pump to a hydrominder, injector bank for any holding tank. why is adding a pump and keeping everything else better than replacing everything with a single pump?

4. >>much better foam show<< Don't see how. This is function of air and solution mixing, not dilution from whatever system. Enlighten me please. Also a function of volume. See Tom Hoffman's youtube video... I have never seen a flojet able to reproduce that type of triple foam, regardless of product and dilution

5. >>potentially faster change over times<< How? Solution line is full with check valve T'd above boom either way.

6. >>easier adjustments to dilution ratios<< 24 injectors versus 4 with anohter system and it''s easier to change injectors than 4 hydrominder tips? Injector pumps? Dosatron?

Injectors don't need changed to change ratios. Screw in tips change dilution and the effect is immediate, no need to drain tank and refill. Actual change maybe the same difficulty but testing and tweaking is quicker and easier because you do not need to refill tank and check results.


Thanks for taking time to reply like this Earl. I appreciate your thoughts because it forces me to consider if this is actually a good idea or an overly expensive/complicated solution. If I go through with the project I will followup with my results.

 

[Earl Weiss]

3. >> more consistent mixing of chemistry<< This is a function of water pressure and can be solved with a pump to a hydrominder, injector bank for any holding tank. why is adding a pump and keeping everything else better than replacing everything with a single pump?

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder. Just not sure going from four flojets and 4 Hydrominders in a 6 bay example to one pump and 24 injectors is a plus. In either case swapping out a pressure stabilizing pump is about the same.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well,

Here is the answer to my question about what it looks like for a 4 Bay Plus DW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_B8zqyXjx0

 

[cantbreak80]

Well,

Here is the answer to my question about what it looks like for a 4 Bay Plus DW

Yikes!!!!!!

 

[CarWashBoy]

Wow, I hate to say it, but that set-up seems to be all old time stuff, that are a Pain and High Maintenance...... Have you ever heard of VFD's (Variable Frequency Devices).. and running presoak, tire cleaner, bug off, etc through a high pressure pump.. (the same one for High Pressure Soap, Rinse, Wax etc..) You only need 1 line going to every bay.. the same line that comes off your high pressure pump.. you can get the chemical to each bay almost instantly, and you can add air to it as well, with far less problems. eliminates all the Flo-Jets, chemical lines to each bay, etc and far less trips up the ladder for repairs.. or am I misunderstanding what you are trying to do here? I could be.. just my 3 cents..
Doug ..

 

[WikiWash]

Wow, I hate to say it, but that set-up seems to be all old time stuff, that are a Pain and High Maintenance...... Have you ever heard of VFD's (Variable Frequency Devices).. and running presoak, tire cleaner, bug off, etc through a high pressure pump.. (the same one for High Pressure Soap, Rinse, Wax etc..) You only need 1 line going to every bay.. the same line that comes off your high pressure pump.. you can get the chemical to each bay almost instantly, and you can add air to it as well, with far less problems. eliminates all the Flo-Jets, chemical lines to each bay, etc and far less trips up the ladder for repairs.. or am I misunderstanding what you are trying to do here? I could be.. just my 3 cents..
Doug ..

Are there any current self-serve equipment manufacturers that build a setup like this?

 

[Earl Weiss]

W................. Have you ever heard of VFD's....................You only need 1 line going to every bay.. the same line that comes off your high pressure pump.. you can get the chemical to each bay almost instantly, ..

Enlighten me please. How does a solution traveling through 80 feet of line (Equip room to tip) get there faster ("almost Instantly" ) Get their faster than liquid traveling 20 feet (Above Boom to tip)

 

[cantbreak80]

http://customkraft.com/
http://hydrospray.com/

Not "instant" delivery to the bays, but high pressure solutions can be delivered and then pressure lowered to provide rapid changeover.

 

[Earl Weiss]

http://customkraft.com/
http://hydrospray.com/

Not "instant" delivery to the bays, but high pressure solutions can be delivered and then pressure lowered to provide rapid changeover.

Thank you. I see one states it runs at high pressure until product reaches tip so there must be some programming involved. Don't know this HP for 80 feet really makes it faster than LP for 20 feet. In any event it's less stuff and I like the blowout feature for winter it comes set up with.

 

[CarWashBoy]

Hi. Yes, Rapidly is probably a better term.. However it is fast.. Let's say a customer selects Pre-Soak.. the product comes out at full pressure and throttles down to what ever you want to simulate a Low Pressure application, which is totally adjustable.. It also looks showy to the Customer.. I have been using Toshiba VFD's and Blue and White pumps for injection to the pump.. I have used this system for 10+ yrs and have had very little problems.. just a suggestion is all.. the only additional items I have overhead are Foam Brush lines and Air Dryer Hose.. Very Sweet.. especially in freezing weather..
Doug

 

[CarWashBoy]

Are there any current self-serve equipment manufacturers that build a setup like this?

Yes, but I think you have to buy the whole Hi-Pressure pumping station/system.. It's pretty simple and straight forward to add to a existing system..

 

[Semi-retired]

CarWashBoy- I've been heading vfd direction and trying to work out some details.
What are you running for your line out to the bay? material and size?
Ive been concerned with the acids being inside the hp pump. What have you experienced with that?

 

[MEP001]

What are you running to the self serve bays that's considered acid?

 

[cantbreak80]

Ive been concerned with the acids being inside the hp pump.

A solution for residual chemical remaining in the pump would incorporate an “Off-Delay” timer on the VFD control system.

When the bay time expires, all chemical solenoids will be closed. The Off-Delay then slows the pump’s motor to your lowest VFD speed setting for 5 to 10 seconds. The pump will flush itself with fresh water.

However, it is unlikely that the last selection used by the customer will be anything but Rinse or Spot Free Rinse. Unless you’re concerned about erosion of the pump’s wet end from residual “aggressive” RO water, the Off Delay control becomes moot.

 

[Semi-retired]

It's a wheel cleaner in the self service but also wondering for the equipment integration into an auto.
It's a vertec product.

 

[CarWashBoy]

A solution for residual chemical remaining in the pump would incorporate an “Off-Delay” timer on the VFD control system.

When the bay time expires, all chemical solenoids will be closed. The Off-Delay then slows the pump’s motor to your lowest VFD speed setting for 5 to 10 seconds. The pump will flush itself with fresh water.

However, it is unlikely that the last selection used by the customer will be anything but Rinse or Spot Free Rinse. Unless you’re concerned about erosion of the pump’s wet end from residual “aggressive” RO water, the Off Delay control becomes moot.

I agree.. Works perfect.. I have had zero problems using VFD's for chemical distribution.
Doug

 

[CarWashBoy]

CarWashBoy- I've been heading vfd direction and trying to work out some details.
What are you running for your line out to the bay? material and size?
Ive been concerned with the acids being inside the hp pump. What have you experienced with that?

Standard High Pressure hose off the pump.. Zero problems with chemical erosion.. you can use a OFF Delay, but I feel no need as 99% use rinse for last cycle with flushes pump..
Doug