FRP panels without silicone?

[Twodose]

Only one person mentioned using a color other than white.

Anyone else used Colors other than white & what color's?

Also has anyone ever used FRP over brick?

 

[Washmechanic]

We use white FRP, and have installed over cinder block and brick. Same procedure for both. No problems.

 

[mjwalsh]

Something to consider

Quote: "As to removing the anchors, it is tricky because in the Fastenal anchors, the center pin is hard plastic and the outside is a softer nylon. So when you try to drill the rivet out, the drill bit will veer off center."

We recently put up FRP for our "work in progress" dog wash. We took the Fastenal nylon rivets back because they did not match the color nearly as good as the one from the local lumber yard that sold the exact matching rivets for the brand of FRP.

 

[Parker]

you can always take a chisel and break the head off the rivet and drive the rest into the wall or pull it out with some needle nose.... lot faster

 

[Twodose]

What is the most common texture used?

 

[Gabriel]

We installed white FRP in 1980 with the little smooth textured bumps on the surface and smooth in the rest rooms. The textured seems to hold up better or at least it does not show scratches, smudges, stains and scuff marks as much as the smooth finish. I am not sure how long the stuff will last, but it looks now about like it did when we first installed it. We do clean it about 3 times a year to keep it good and white. If it starts to wear out or fall off of the walls I will post the bad news. One point is, I do think it comes in different thicknesses and grades.

 

[Tom Lee]

What product do you clean it with, Gator?

We put Poly Max on our walls (yes MEP001, we understand. It's not FRP. Thank you very much.) I've been thying to find something to clean it with ( a cleaner, chemical, etc) and am havig no success. Tried aluminum brightner, Tilex, as well as other bathroom cleaners, and nothing seems to cut the soap scum and greasy stuff.

I've tried to find the manufacturer of the stuff but can't find that either. Farm Tek is no help.

Any suggestions would be appeciated. Thanks.

 

[Gabriel]

It seems to clean best with an acid base product. One I cannot recommend, however it does get the stuff snow white. The problem is that it is dangerous. Nu Wall from Acadian Chemicals cleans it snow white. Got to be careful with it also. I have been meaning to try the fruit based acids to see how they do. We wear protective clothing, gloves, and face protection.

 

[SteveT]

Polymax - how do you clean it?

I installed the 1/4" Polymax from Farmtek, and it is great. I haven't figured out the best way to clean it though. Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[MEP001]

I haven't figured out the best way to clean it though. Any ideas?

It depends entirely on what you're trying to remove.

 

[rph9168]

The real trick in cleaning and maintaining a good appearance is to stay on top of them right from the beginning. They need to be cleaned almost weekly depending on how much the bays are being used. There are many decent non-acid or less aggressive acid wall cleaners that will work if you have not allowed the walls to get a film/dirt build up. It might even require a little scrubbing as well as high pressure.

If you must or choose to use a Fluoride based wall cleaner make sure you use all the necessary protective gear and be very careful of any contact with your skin (especially open cuts) or inhaling the vapors.

 

[BayWatch]

I use Aluminate by Warsaw. My local dist carries it. I clean one bay a week. I have FRP panels. I mix it 5:1 with water and spray it on with a hand pump sprayer. Wait about 5 minutes and rinse it off with the HP gun. Afterwards, I spray the walls with RainX and rinse. The FRP panels had "stains" on them when I bought the wash, and I have had no luck removing them, but I am positive we have no new stains. I think the RainX helps keep that shiny new look and helps keep the panels clean.

 

[rph9168]

Baywatch, I hope you are wearing protective gear when using that product. It contains Hydrofluoric Acid and you should be very careful when using it.

 

[BayWatch]

Head to toe. I learned that the first time I used it. Any splatter would create a whole on any piece of clothing I was wearing. I have a heavy guage rain suite and full face shield. This is the main reason we do a bay a week. I dont have to handle it all day, and since they are cleaned regularly, I can just spray it on and rinse it off. I also believe a little wax, etc. helps keep the gunk from sticking.

 

[MEP001]

I used some Klean Wall on some plastic covers I had off of the Vector while changing the tires, and they cleaned up like new. It's much less harmful than any product with hydrofluoric acid and does a good job. It hardly fumes at all and it isn't even a big deal if it gets on your skin when diluted at least 1.5:1 with water.

 

[rph9168]

Klean Wall also contains the fluoride ion as well, just not in the form of hydrofluoric acid. You may not have experienced a problem the first time but any prolonged exposure or direct contact with the undiluted product could create some problems. Wear protective gear when you use it.

 

[Twodose]

I use Aluminate by Warsaw. My local dist carries it. I clean one bay a week. I have FRP panels. I mix it 5:1 with water and spray it on with a hand pump sprayer. Wait about 5 minutes and rinse it off with the HP gun. Afterwards, I spray the walls with RainX and rinse. The FRP panels had "stains" on them when I bought the wash, and I have had no luck removing them, but I am positive we have no new stains. I think the RainX helps keep that shiny new look and helps keep the panels clean.

I also use this product for years, its a great product, it is made to clean frp panels, it also cleans stainless, aluminum, block, brick, painted block or brick, I use it straight from the 5 gal container, it is 20% hydrofluoric, I have used it wearing only shorts, sneakers and a tank top, you have to be careful not to splash it on you, they put muratic acid in it so you can feel it burn when it gets on you, they say you wouldn't feel the hydrofluoric until it starts burning through your skin, I heard it is calcium seeking so it goes straight for your bones, but I believe at the ratio that Warsaw sells it at won't hurt you if you are careful, I always wears eye protection. They say that Nitrile is the only safe protection to use as it will permeate rubber, vinyl or latex. I bought a full body green acid suit years ago to use when applying this product but never used it.

From Wikipedia:

Safety

Hydrofluoric acid is corrosive and a contact poison. It should be handled with extreme care, beyond that accorded to other mineral acids, in part because of its low dissociation constant, which allows HF to penetrate tissue more quickly. Symptoms of exposure to hydrofluoric acid may not be immediately evident. HF interferes with nerve function and burns may not initially be painful. Accidental exposures can go unnoticed, delaying treatment and increasing the extent and seriousness of the injury.[4] HF is known to etch bone, and since it penetrates the skin it can weaken bones without destroying the skin.[5]

HF chemical burns can be treated with a water wash and 2.5% calcium gluconate gel or special rinsing solutions.

 

[MEP001]

Klean Wall also contains the fluoride ion as well, just not in the form of hydrofluoric acid. You may not have experienced a problem the first time but any prolonged exposure or direct contact with the undiluted product could create some problems. Wear protective gear when you use it.

I can't find the MSDS to confirm, but if I recall there's no fluorine/fluoride/HFL in Klean Wall. The main active ingredient is sulfamic acid.

 

[rph9168]

I worked for a major chemical supplier in the car wash industry for several years. Their lab confirmed the presence of the fluoride ion in that product. The fluoride ion is found in several other ingredients other than Hydrofluoric Acid most notably Ammonium Fluoride. They can advertise that it does not contain HF but that does not mean it does not have the fluoride ion. I have always felt this was very deceiving but it is not illegal or factually incorrect.

I know what a great cleaner the fluoride ion is but it is also extremely dangerous to use. I have seen conveyor washes where it ate up the concrete and even the conveyor by the arch that applied the product not to mention the pumps in the back room. The original cleaning use for it was to clean computer boards. The cleaning was done in a self contained room that had many safety features to prevent exposure to it. I talked with a chemist who worked for a major manufacturer of HF who told me that it should never be used in anything but a controlled environment and was amazed that it was used in the car wash industry.

There are many concentrated chemicals in a car wash backroom that should be treated with a great deal of caution. I would highly recommend that a backroom should be off limits to anyone not aware of the proper usage and treatment of these concentrated chemicals. On the next post I will list some of the issues regarding the fluoride ion. (Continued)

 

[rph9168]

Here is some information you might want to know about.

It is evident that many people are not aware of the risks that exist with the use of Hydrofluoric Acid and Ammonium Biflouride. This information will help you understand why the risk is real and should not be ignored.

You should be aware of the following facts relative to HF or ABF:

1. HF is one of the strongest inorganic acids available, used primarily for industrial purposes (i.e., etching glass, petroleum refining, and electronics manufacturing under a highly controlled environment)
2. When using HF at any known concentration that will clean, it will corrode most metals including stainless steel, attack concrete, pit glass, and negatively effect most painted surfaces.
3. HF is considered Toxic and therefore a known poison when absorbed through the skin, ingested or inhaled. The effects of the exposure may vary based on exposure time, concentration, surface coverage and the size of the person.
4. HF in a concentration above 0.5% may result in severe ocular damage to the eye. Fume exposure commonly causes eye irritation and can also cause ocular injury. Signs and symptoms may be delayed.
5. OSHA?s maximum permissible respiratory exposure limit is 3 parts per million average exposure in an 8-hour period.
6. Many insurers will not issue policies or increase rates if they are aware that these products are being used, so be sure to check with your carrier for coverage if you are planning to use HF or ABF.

There have been several articles in PCD highlighting industry issues regarding HF. You should be able to find them in their archives. If not, e-mail me and I can send you a few.