Laserwash 4000 with VT not measuring....PEI and newhampshiretech and others

[getnbusy]

Hello,,
My 4000 is not measuring the left or right sides of the car. Currently I have it set up on a width measurement of 1 thru the automatic parameters, and I have NO lights on the VT board for left or right side arch buffer. The VT board shows NO errors, and operates in the proper state at the proper time.. The machine has new ultrasonics, calibrated properly, and the underbody spray is not an issue. I have been thru all the wiring with my local distributor, and all seems to be working as intended, meaning I have followed y33 and y10 from the output cards thru the relays and on to the VT board with the proper voltage at the proper time. I have also adjusted the ladder bar prox and air pressures. vT version is 2.1. I have the newer black ultrasonics.

I am told it must be that the VT board must be bad. I am confident in the technicians opinion, but I am wondering why all indicators point to the VT board working on the front side, it just doesnt do its job.

The machine has been working properly with the new ultrasonics for about a month. It just stopped out of the blue.

Has anyone else experienced this ??

 

[getnbusy]

Finally.... the VT board red light is on indicating there is an error. In the VT retrofit manual # M800347, page 20, there are instructions to use the error display.


it states......

POSITION #1, ERROR DISPLAY

"WHEN THE ACTION, MOTOR FORWARD AND MOTOR REVERSE ARE ALL ACTIVATED IN THIS MODE, THE VIRTUAL TREADLE STARTS A SELF-TEST. THE INPUTS AND OUTPUTS MUST BE WIRED TOGETHER BEFORE THE SELF-TEST STARTS. When just the action button is pressed, the last error that is different from the current error, is displayed (version 1.6 and up)."



Does anyone know how to perform the capitalized portion quoted above ??

Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Bob
cell 252-432-6560
email rdstanley1@hotmail.com

 

[BBE]

Pretty sure it doesn't measure the driver side, only the passenger side. Do you have the side sonar or top sonar?

 

[getnbusy]

Just washed a car and the error light went out. Machine did not measure the vehicle. Ive moved the VT controller to position 1 and pressed the action key and exposed the "last error different from the current error" . LED 1, right ultrasonic not responding. We did find a bad ultrasonic on the right side yesterday. A new ultrasonic was installed yesterday and calibrated. All of the stuff listed in original post was performed after the ultrasonic replacement. I do not know how to perform the test in the post above to access the Current Error.

 

[getnbusy]

BBE, thanks for responding

The tech I've been working with says it measures both. The way i understand it, the programming selection in "automatic parameters" adjusts how close to both side of the car. ANd the adjustment in the "arch buffer " is for the selected side only.

You said "side sonar or top sonar". Not to my knowing. Are you speaking of the old "right side measure" eye (X22) on the bridge that was used prior to the VT ??? NO I am not using that, but yes, OUTPUT X22 is lit on the output card when the wash is in the "auto idle/ wait for money" state.

 

[getnbusy]

BBE
I am using the new style side sonar

 

[PEI]

The Motor Forward Input and Motor Reverse Input are located on the four pin connector at the bottom center of the VT card known as the J5 connection. Pin 3 is wired to Y30 and is the Motor Forward Input. Pin 4 is wired to Y31 and is the Motor Reverse Input. The Motor Forward Output and Motor Reverse Output are located on the 10 pin connector located at the top of the right side of the VT card known as the J2 connection. Pin 8 is wired to the Speed Controllers (VFD) forward input and is the Motor Forward Output. Pin 9 is wired to the Speed Controllers reverse input and is the Motor Reverse Output.

The instructions are asking you to wire the Motor Forward Input (Pin 3 on J5) to the Motor Forward Output (Pin 8 on J2) and the Motor Reverse Input (Pin 4 on J5) to the Motor Reverse Output (Pin 9 on J2). Then press the Action Button located beneath the Selector Switch in the upper left corner of the VT card. I have never done this test and would suspect that you should remove the wires on the J2's Pin 8 and Pin 9 going to the Speed Controller (VFD). No sense playing with the Speed Controller considering how easily they can be messed up.

 

[PEI]

My experience has been when a VT card is working and just stops measuring correctly on both sides. The VT card has gone bad. If you know both ultrasonics are working properly, and none of your keep out, abort, and buffer settings have changed. Then the only other real possibility is a wire connection has loosened up.

On a side note, if the car wash was measuring properly before with the width measurement set at 1 and no lights on the arch buffer, then you already had a problem. No lights on the arch buffer defaults to the width measurement in the A5000 Controller. A 1 is about 3 inches between the cars side and the lower spray arch. You should hit the mirror of every car you wash. Normal and ideal is a width measurement of 4 or about 12 inches between the lower spray arch and the side of the car. Every light on the arch buffer adds an additional 2 inches to the distance the lower spray arch is from the side of the vehicle.

 

[whitescout]

If you turn the dial on the VT controller to E, and then F, that should tell you whether the left and right sonars are actually measuring, at that time. You can perform this test while the machine is idle, and while the machine is washing a car. Where is your underbody, and do you have side blasters? I have seen the undercarriage/side blasters interfere with the sonars reading properly, as the sonars are reading as the car eneters the bay.

 

[getnbusy]

PEI
Thank you i will try that test ASAP. The machine was not running properly with a parameter of 1 and no lights on the VT arch buffer. I reduced the settings in an attempt to make it size the car. Previously the settings were parameter 4,and 3 lights left and 2 lights right.

 

[getnbusy]

whitescout
Isthis what you mean ??


If you are referring to moving the selector switch to e or f, then putting a target in front of the ultrasonic, and watching lights fall off the VT board as you move closer to the ultrasonic. I have done this and it apppears to be working. I have not done this while washing a car.

The underbody/sideblaster was not an issue for a month, but it has been moved since the trouble started.

 

[getnbusy]

PEI,
when wiring the I/O's together, should this be done on the board ? or off the board ? Meaning, can I just take the wires loose and wire nut them together ? or should a loop be made on the controller ?
thanks
Bob

 

[getnbusy]

whitescout
I put selector switch in e and f while washing a car. I get 2 lights on the left and 3 lights on the right.

 

[getnbusy]

PEI
I see the connections you are speaking of. If I take those wires loose from the VT board connections, and wirenut the respective ones together, that is essentially hooking output card y30 straight to the speed controller. Im like you, that connection makes me nervous on Sunday afternoon.

Is that how it should be done ? or should it be jumped from J2 to J5 ?


New info:
the error lite came back on. I pressed the action button by itself to see if there was a different error from before. All 8 lites are lit and blinking. That was not one of the codes listed in the manual.

I turned the power off/on and now no error lite.

I am wondering, would a power off/on begin a startup test for the VT ? would that tell me anything ?

thank you again


about what does a VT controller board cost ?

 

[koliver]

The ultrasonics can be tested by turning the selector switch on the VT board to position “E” or “F”. With nothing blocking the ultrasonics, there should be 7 LEDs solid and one blinking. The closer the target gets to the Ultrasonic, the less LEDs will be on. If every other LED is displayed, this indicates the VT board is not recognizing the ultrasonics. If the site has the older blue ultrasonics, then make sure they are mounted in the correct position as they are programmed to be specific to “left”, “right”, or “top”.

The ultrasonics will send information to the VT board which will, in turn, be translated to inputs X22 (right side measure) and X30 (Width measure pulse). If the VT board has 2.1 software, then an input from the trolley interposing relay will be needed to recognize the input X30. You can manually turn on output Y33 and verify the input is being seen on the VT board. (selector switch in position 4, LED 2)

If the input is being seen, then there may be a problem with input X30 circuit. Try isolating the circuit by bypassing the terminal strips in the J4, J2, and J0 boxes. Electrical noise may give false readings. If the machine never “creeps left” during initial vehicle measure, then the information being read from the ultrasonics on the VT board is not correct.

 

[getnbusy]

Hello Kris, thanks for responding

Site has the black ultrasonics.
They have been tested numerous times in position e or f. works fine.
I am able to follow voltage thru x22 and x30.
I am able to see "selector switch position 4, LED 2" when y33 is turned on.
The machine does "creep left" during intial vehicle measure.

In your last paragraph above, you state "If the input IS being seen". Is this correct ? ****or ***should it state, "if the input IS NOT being seen". On mine, the input IS being seen. Just wanting to clarify

I have not been able to perform the error test stated in the manual. It states that the inputs and outputs must be wired together before the VT can begin a startup test. Does this mean to take the wires loose from j5 and wirenut them to the appropriate wires on J2, thus INCLUDING the x 30 input card ?********** OR******does it mean to make a jumper wire J2 to the appropriate wires on J5, thus EXCLUDING the x30 input card ? I am nervous about wiring either without first knowing the proper way.

I am wanting to know how to see what the current error is. I would like to be able to address that before I go buy a VT control board.
Thanks
Bob

 

[koliver]

By input being seen, I meant the input from the trolley interposing relay on the VT board. This input should be on any time the trolley is moving.

I would not suggest jumping terminals together on the VT board. This must be an out of date procedure and if jumping an AC to DC circuit, this would definitely short out the VT board.

Just because the red light is on, doesn’t mean you have an error, this LED will come on during a warning event as well. You can use positions 1 and 2 to check errors and warnings.

Please don't hesitate to give our tech service group a call at (800) 227-3373. They can walk you through this in more detail.

 

[getnbusy]

Hey guys, sorry for the long delay. I was all over this issue for awhile then got busy on another project.

The test I am referencing above is apparently from old literature. I did obtain a new VT manual that is much easier to navigate.

Ok so, the problem is still unresolved. After talking with Kris and other PDQ people, it was determined that the VT board was likely bad. Hard to say for sure without being there looking at it. I understand that. I bought a new VT board and installed it. The first 3 cars, the machine DID NOT measure. Then, it went to working perfectly, most of the time, for about 2 days. After 48 hours, it was back to measuring the car only sometimes. Now that a week has passed. The machine DOES NOT MEASURE any cars. No adjustments in the parameters or on the VT board make any difference.

With the new VT board, I AM ABLE to now see what the errors and warnings are.

Warning #5 = re-synchronized count ( i get this warning ALOT)

Error #1 = Right ultrasonic not responding. (only had this 1 time)

Ok, so does anybody know what to do to correct the warning or error I am seeing ???

thanks in advance
Bob





I'm lost. I have been over every inch of the VT with my distributor and a PDQ technical engineer. I have performed all the test listed above, I have installed new ultrasonics, and a new VT board.

 

[Showmecarcare]

I think I may know your problem. I just experienced the same issue over the last six months and so far I've had it fixed for two weeks you can call me if you want at 573-248-4522 my name is Scott

 

[lag]

Why not post the solution? Could help others in the future.