tire and engine cleaner leaking out the gun in my SS bays

[zed 9]

Hello All, i'm new to the forum and hopefully someone can help me out, i have a problem with one of the low pressure functions on my 1997 model self serve Gin San Car Lovers Ultimate pump stand , the problem is the tire and engine cleaner leaks out the gun into the bay when not being used, or will not shut off after being used. The fluid pressure is adjusted 40 psi and the air pressure adjusted to 35 psi, I have removed the plunger and return spring from the GC 3 station 24 volt solenoid valve, checked the plunger sealing rubber and checked the stainless steel seat inside the manifold, the plunger rubber is still good, spring is not broken and the seat is good no nics or burrs. I have installed a new plunger assembly and still the same problems. I have cleaned the tire and engine tank thoroughly to make sure no debris is getting stuck on the valve plunger, the tank suction strainer is good no holes and clean, hose to the flow jet pump has been cleaned. The tank has been filled with water only and using the flow jet pump flush the lines and flow jet pump. When the tire and engine cleaner is leaking out the gun i have removed the 24 volt solenoid only to see if any electrical power is energizing the solenoid causing the plunger to be off the seat and still the fluid leaks out the gun.
I have tried reducing the fluid pressure down to 30 psi and the air pressure down to 25 psi but after a few days the same problem is back.
Any thoughts or ideas to help solve my problem is greatly appreciated.

 

[2Biz]

When the tire and engine cleaner is leaking out the gun i have removed the 24 volt solenoid only to see if any electrical power is energizing the solenoid causing the plunger to be off the seat and still the fluid leaks out the gun.

You said you removed the solenoid and it still leaked out the gun? Thats impossible? Maybe you meant you removed the coil? But if you did, you don't want to energize it, it will let the magic smoke out of the coil! Have you tried leaving everything hooked up normal and disconnect the output from the chemical solenoid? If it is leaking by, its either a bad solenoid, debris, or it is installed backwards....

 

[MEP001]

Is it leaking from just one bay or all of them?

What pumps the tire cleaner to the bay? Is there a pump that stays pressurized all the time?

 

[zed 9]

at different times all bays leak, and the air operated flow jet pump stays pressurized which pumps the fluid to each bay

 

[stampedecarwash]

I don't have quite same setup but it sounds like a strange problem. Did you try a new flojet pump? If it comes out from all the bays, how is it that all of the plungers are left open? Usually there is only one with some trash got stock in it.

 

[Sparkleclean]

My gin san setup has the low pressure lines run along side the high pressure ones and just before they enter the self serve bay they pass through a check valve and then enter the high pressure hose. If that check valve has debris keeping it open i usually see the plastic low pressure lines blow out once the high pressure turns on, but if by some chance there is just a little bit of debris keeping it open and your flowjet is keeping your wheel cleaner pressurized it would probably pass through that check valve and keep flowing.... just a thought...

 

[zed 9]

thank you to fellow members for replying, i have thought about the check valve Sparkleclean has mentioned but i don't have low pressure lines popping off when the high pressure is on, and no leak back to the hydrominder tanks. I will however remove that check valve and check it out, could be something weird like the high pressure does keep the valve closed but leaks at low pressure.

zed 9

 

[MEP001]

A bad check valve is not your problem. Check valves prevent flow in the wrong direction. You have flow in the correct direction, which can only mean a leaking solenoid.

 

[Randy]

It’s definitely not going to be a check valve problem and not going to be Flojet pump problem. Does the Flojet pump cycle On & Off while the Tire cleaner is leaking out in the Bays? If it does it’s a solenoid valve problem. A solenoid valve that’s 21 years is about at the end of its duty life. Does the Tire cleaner leak if you remove the air pressure from the Flojet pump? Are you 100% sure it’s Tire cleaner leaking from the guns in the Bays?

 

[washnvac]

Bet your manifold is eaten out on the inside. Just replace the whole 3-bank manifold, and save yourself a lot of headache. Dump the GC valve and get a different brand in stainless. The GC units are nothing but problems.

 

[Randy]

We don’t use the pre-made manifolds. We build our own manifolds with ¼” Stainless steel “T”s and nipples with Kip solenoids for the Tire cleaner and Presoak systems. If there is aproblem with a solenoid valve it easy to change out.

 

[FastLaneCarWash]

I am currently having this same issue on 3 of my bays. I have changed out the motor the pump and also the solenoids. I’m thinking it has to be a wiring issue since the problem never went away. I reached out to Zed to see if he ever fixed this exact issue. Does anyone know if he fixed it and what the outcome was?

 

[Randy]

I am currently having this same issue on 3 of my bays. I have changed out the motor the pump and also the solenoids. I’m thinking it has to be a wiring issue since the problem never went away. I reached out to Zed to see if he ever fixed this exact issue. Does anyone know if he fixed it and what the outcome was?

A little more information would be nice. What kind of set up do you have? What pump are you using? What solenoids are you using? Pictures are always nice.

 

[FastLaneCarWash]

I am using pro con pump. Brand new. I went from Peter Paul solenoids to Kip solenoids preassembled in the manifold. I am not using air just chemical right now until I can figure out my issue. I am also using a brand new marathon motor.

 

[MEP001]

Does the motor run only with a bay selected, or is there a bladder tank that keeps the tire cleaner always pressurized? If it's the former, you should only see tire cleaner leaking when another bay is running tire cleaner. If it's the latter, you would see tire cleaner leaking in those bays all the time. In either case, it's most likely the solenoids. Since you've just replaced them, you probably knocked debris loose that's getting caught under the plungers. If there's not a bladder tank and there's a white buildup in the old solenoids, you might want to empty the mix tank and fill it with vinegar, run the bay for the top solenoid until it's through it and let it sit overnight, then flush it with water.

 

[FastLaneCarWash]

I am using pro con pump. Brand new. I went from Peter Paul solenoids to ImI solenoids preassembled in the manifold. I am not using air just chemical right now until I can figure out my issue. I am

Does the motor run only with a bay selected, or is there a bladder tank that keeps the tire cleaner always pressurized? If it's the former, you should only see tire cleaner leaking when another bay is running tire cleaner. If it's the latter, you would see tire cleaner leaking in those bays all the time. In either case, it's most likely the solenoids. Since you've just replaced them, you probably knocked debris loose that's getting caught under the plungers. If there's not a bladder tank and there's a white buildup in the old solenoids, you might want to empty the mix tank and fill it with vinegar, run the bay for the top solenoid until it's through it and let it sit overnight, then flush it with water.

I have flushed out the white scale build up before I did anything. There is a bladder tank that keeps everything under pressure. It leaks all the time no matter if another bay is being used or not.

 

[Randy]

It's no your pump o your motor, they won't anything to do with a leaking valve. Does the pump cycle On and Off, if it does you've got a bad solenoid valve or debris under the seat. I would rip out the bladder tank and control the pump motor with a IDX MX-8 controller

24V Multiplex Controller - IDX MX8 | Kleen-Rite

The IDX MX8 monitors 8 inputs from bay location to tire cleaner or any other low pressure system with a 2 second delay. Buy it online from Kleen-Rite!

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

this will eliminate the need for the bladder tank and pressure switch. That set up with the bladder tank and pressure switch is nothing but problematic.

 

[FastLaneCarWash]

It's no your pump o your motor, they won't anything to do with a leaking valve. Does the pump cycle On and Off, if it does you've got a bad solenoid valve or debris under the seat. I would rip out the bladder tank and control the pump motor with a IDX MX-8 controller

24V Multiplex Controller - IDX MX8 | Kleen-Rite

The IDX MX8 monitors 8 inputs from bay location to tire cleaner or any other low pressure system with a 2 second delay. Buy it online from Kleen-Rite!

www.kleen-ritecorp.com

this will eliminate the need for the bladder tank and pressure switch. That set up with the bladder tank and pressure switch is nothing but problematic.

Yes my pump cycles on and off because I lose pressure and it cycles on to build pressure.

 

[MEP001]

You obviously have issues with the solenoids. That's the only thing that will allow flow to the bays. You may have flushed out the loose scale, but there must be more that's come loose or you got Teflon tape or something in the solenoids. Open up and clean the solenoids and make sure there's a screen in the tank or a strainer inline before the solenoids. It doesn't hurt to have a controller to operate the pump instead of dead-heading flow with the solenoids, but I've never had an issue as long as there's something to protect the solenoids from debris.

 

[FastLaneCarWash]

You obviously have issues with the solenoids. That's the only thing that will allow flow to the bays. You may have flushed out the loose scale, but there must be more that's come loose or you got Teflon tape or something in the solenoids. Open up and clean the solenoids and make sure there's a screen in the tank or a strainer inline before the solenoids. It doesn't hurt to have a controller to operate the pump instead of dead-heading flow with the solenoids, but I've never had an issue as long as there's something to protect the solenoids from debris.

Thanks MEP I will pull apart the solenoids and see if maybe there was some scale or something in the lines that I broke loose. I do have a screen in the tank and also a inline strainer. Thanks for helping out man.