Wash World HV strange issue

[fastlx]

Hi Guys.. Looking for some input here. I have a WW HV with VR attendant. Here is the issue:

Usually a white F150 or Chevy truck enters the bay. Measure is good and the LP 1 and LP 2 are fine. When the HP rinse comes on it will rinse the front and when it is moving up the drivers side it will stop about half way on the bed and try to cross. Of course the arm raises and we get an impact error. So it remeasures and goes to the full back of the truck and continues the wash. Now when the Triple Foam comes on it will only go to about the spot where the Impact switch was made and then return home. The final rinse and soft free are fine as they go fully to the back of the truck.

This unit does have the Carlo Gavazzi units and boxes. The sensors are fairly new, but the control boxes themselves do have some age...

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced an issue like this?

This is not an occurrence that happens all the time just a few times a week.

Thanks again for all the input. And Have a Very Happy New Year.

Vic

 

[chevyguy09]

Fastlx:

Usually if the arch is rotating early, it can happen because of either the rear limit input is flickering on or if the sensor beam rear input flickers on. In this case I am assuming the machine is past the mid limit already at this point which pretty much would rule out the possibility of the rear limit prox switch seeing the mid limit flag. Do you know the age of your festoon by chance? Is there possibly some damage on the Rear limit Prox switch or the age of the prox? It may not be a bad idea to see if you can get a vehicle that size to run some test washes with the vehicle in the bay and watch your sensor beam rear input (I:0/11) and your rear limit (I:1/7) and see if you can see either one flicker on at any point. In a perfect world you should not see either of these flicker at all and should come on and stay on in good working order. Keep in mind though all it takes is a millisecond flicker to trigger for the machine to think it is ok to rotate the arch. Also, if you don't see a flicker on the input cards doesn't necessary mean it is not happening. It can be hard to notice a flicker that is happening that fast.

 

[fastlx]

Thanks ChevyGuy09. The festoon is original so about 16 years old. Rear proximity could have damage I have really never changed or checked it. I have a Silver F150 and never have this issue. It seems white trucks are the worse?? I will try the test you recommend.

Thanks Again,

Vic

 

[chevyguy09]

Not a problem Vic. with that festoon being original and about 16 years old I would have to say that it is probably time to change the festoon. In fact, I do not think I have ever heard of a festoon cable lasting as long on a HV as your machine has. Very impressive I must say lol. To be honest, I don't think the color paint would have much to do with the situation your having and kind of thinking it may be more less coincidence.

 

[fastlx]

Stupid question is the festoon a PITA to change? I'm very mechanical, just never changed one of these. My background is from the dry-cleaning machinery industry for 30 years.

Thanks,

Vic

 

[chevyguy09]

I would have to say it depends on who you ask. It is rather tedious and depending on who as all been in your enclosures can kind of dictate that and the condition of the insides of the enclosures. Hanging the festoons in the proper spot is not the worst to do but getting the wires in the proper spot can be the tricky part mostly because if there was ever any wire fixes throughout the life of the festoon, or if terminals were bypassed. I work for Washworld and am in the tech support department so if you ever did have any questions if you decide to change the festoon we can certainly help you with any wire questions. All in all, you will want to pay the closest attention to where the wires are terminated and what festoon cable is going to what enclosure. The nice thing about the festoon is that we color code each cable and we do have cheat sheet we could send you as well on what color festoon cable goes to what enclosure and what wire number in the festoon cable matches up to each terminal in each enclosure. Another thing to keep in mind as far as hanging the festoon, you will want to make sure your "sag" between each festoon track roller is even. What I would do to hang it is position the carriage at its furthest extent from the bay box that way you can stretch the cable out and be able to get a good visual on where you can clamp the festoon rollers onto the festoon in an even fashion. After all the wires are hooked up and you are able to move the machine again you could then make any adjustments to the rollers and also making sure everything pulls even.

 

[fastlx]

I got ya. I'm sure I have spoken to you before. WW service is the best in my opinion. Maybe I will just get a quote and order a new festoon and then wait to see if the problem starts occurring more frequently. Then just replace it. I will tell you that when the original owner replaced the gavazzi sensors he DID NOT run a complete new wire. He just spliced them in. Could this be the hang up. I did check them and seal them with plastic water tight connectors ( I also put plastic bags over the connectors) so no water is getting inside to them on the lower and upper side arms.

Vic

 

[chevyguy09]

I thank you for the compliment. I tend to cringe when I hear splicing the photo-eye wires. I never hear good results or results that last very long when I hear people splicing wires. I would more less think though in your situation I do not think it would be the case but I have had some rather head scratching things happen. The inputs on the amplifier settings are set up so when the eyes are seeing each other the amp sends the signal to the PLC and the signal drops out when the eyes are broke. I would probably see if you can eliminate the wire splices which involve replacing the photo eyes unfortunately, but at least then you wouldn't have to question the splices or end up purchasing potentially expensive components down the line that probably weren't necessarily needed.

Alex.

 

[fastlx]

Thanks Alex. I do have some new sensors. The big question is that if I want to pull the new wires through the system can I just piggy back the new ones to them and gently pull them from the box under the panel where the Carlo Gavazzi amps are mounted? Basically is it just single wires ( NO WIRE TIES ) holding a bundle of wires together? and the sensor wire should pull freely? I hope I'm making sense.. Thanks Vic

 

[chevyguy09]

You should be able to do that no problem. that's usually what I do when I replace the eyes. I cut the cable off the failed eye and use the cable already ran as a fish tape to run the new cable through.

 

[fastlx]

Perfect that's what I was asking. Thanks again for all the help.. Have a great New Year. Would you think to start with the eyes on the rear of the bar. ( closest to the entrance) or the ones closest to the exit?

Thanks,

Vic

 

[chevyguy09]

I would probably start with the ones on the entrance side based off of what you had mentioned in a previous message of the arch being on the Drivers side.

 

[fastlx]

Thanks again. Yes when it faults ( i can watch the camera) it is always on the drivers side. But why would the triple foam only go to the same point as the fault? Is that normal. But the rinses after went to the back and were fine?

 

[chevyguy09]

By chance is the triple foam product going through the arch or is it set up as Hi-Foam where there is pods on each side of the carriage that the triple foam product comes out of? If it has the pods what is more than likely happening is that rear limit is flickering on or that sensor beam rear input is flickering on which is causing it to stop early. It does seem strange that when it happens on the triple foam pass the pass after works just fine but then again these cables can make it tough because we can't see the amount of damage inside the cable. The wash pass speed could have an effect on it by how much tension is being pushed or pulled on the cable, or the temperature in the wash bay (colder temps make the festoon harder to bend versus warmer temps make it easier to bend which can have an impact on when these issues could be happening).

 

[fastlx]

I got ya. Yes I use the Hi Foam pods on the side. And today it wasn't bad 45-50F in the bay. It was much colder last week. So i think either a sensor ( easy to change them both).. or the whole festoon ( not easy). I have the sensors. I will call WW parts and get a price on the festoon. Do you recommend the part number WW 072?

Thanks,

Vic

 

[chevyguy09]

Yup. I would recommend the WW072 which is the festoon cable kit. I would also recommend getting the 33293 which is the festoon Rollers. The wheels on those rollers are just plastic and if they have not been changed in 16 years I would suspect they are probably pretty well wore out.

 

[Waxman]

Is it possible that the rear sonar is picking up the gap between the truck cab and the truck bed?

 

[chevyguy09]

Is it possible that the rear sonar is picking up the gap between the truck cab and the truck bed?

The HV did not have a rear sonar. The HV only used the T bar eyes for finding the front and rear of the vehicles. The vehicle would have to have a huge gap between the cab and the bed. IMO, I think it would be awfully hard for the eyes to see through that gap considering there is also the vehicle frame it would have to look through as well due to the different heights of the T bars.

 

[MEP001]

The HV did not have a rear sonar. The HV only used the T bar eyes for finding the front and rear of the vehicles. The vehicle would have to have a huge gap between the cab and the bed. IMO, I think it would be awfully hard for the eyes to see through that gap considering there is also the vehicle frame it would have to look through as well due to the different heights of the T bars.

I remember this had been a problem on some older Laser 4000 units, particularly a new at the time Toyota Tundra that had a wide gap. I still have an old Chevy S-10 that has a much wider than usual gap too - I can kneel down and look all the way through. The difference in height of the T-bars will only make it easier to see over the frame rails.

 

[fastlx]

Thanks for all the responses. I really believe the issue is one of the T bar sensors. I will get those replaced and let everyone know the outcome.