Washed out 310 manifolds - With pictures

[2Biz]

Makes total sense....I still have all the pumps that were original in 1985! Their old, but not old enough to have snap rings holding in the LP seals! Thanks for all the information. I'll give Dynajet a call. I think I like the idea of a pressed in SS sleeve for the HP seals a little better than the Vilco method?

 

[slash007]

I have sent my last 2 to KR and I think they press in a SS sleeve, unlock the Vilco method. I have a repaired one waiting in a box and can double check the next time I am out at the wash.

 

[2Biz]

Update, Vilco has been very responsive and replied to my emails. Their pricing is on their website. They will actually only do the HP seal area if you want or do the HP seal area plus sleeve the valve seal area...


Dynajet on the other hand did not respond to any of my emails or respond when I left messages on their answering machine....

KR will only sleeve the whole head for $189.99. They won't do just the HP seal seats...But they also sleeve the HP seal area with press in sleeves, unlike Vilco's method. There is a price difference between the two different vendors and methods, but time will tell if one is better than the other. I have a Vilco head I put in service over the weekend and it runs great!

 

[2Biz]

You don't want to take off much at all because the plastic seal retainer pieces need to hold the low pressure seal in place. As the seal casing gets shorter you'll have movement of the seal which will make it fail prematurely. I'd recommend replacing them if you have to remove more than a couple thou. If your pumps are so old that it uses a snap ring to retain the low-pressure seals, you can take them down a lot without a problem.

Observation


I pulled another Vilco Head off the shelf to make some observations on how the process is done and tolerances held. What I found relates to Meps post above. Looking at the photos below, after torquing down the seal cases with #29 oring, SS sleeves and HP seals inserted, the outside two seal cases are .070" too deep in the head and the center seal case is .100 too deep. This is because of the amount of stock taken off the HP seal face in the head. The calculation is based on the bottom of the slot in the seal case is supposed to be level with the face of the head. Not only will the LP plastic seal retainer not do its job, I'm wondering if the Seal Case Oring will seal in the 1.260" finish bore. There is a cast relief between this bore and the HP seal Bore. Measuring it out, it looks like the oring is very close to the cast relief or not sealing at all. Even if it seals ok, there is the issue with the plastic seal cases not doing their job. I know Vilco is supposed to test for pressure and leaks, but the oring will only do its job if the HP seal starts to bypass or wash out. Then I think you'd see water make it past the oring if its not seated correctly and leak out of the pump.

So to resolve, I'm either putting a SS washer of correct thickness between the seal case and HP seal so the bottom of slot ends up in the right location, or just use snap rings to hold the LP seals in place, like Mep suggested. You just need to make sure the Seal Case Oring seats correctly in the bore. If you go the snap ring route, just make sure you grind a little off the 2 loops close to the bore. They are about even with the bore and could possibly hit the ceramic plunger.

Any issues I'm missing if using SS washers in between the seal case and HP seals? They would have to be machined to the right ODxIDxthickness….

 

[MEP001]

Good to know about the seal casing o-ring, I never thought about how far down it can still maintain a seal.

Have you tried putting a pump together with the seal retainer snap ring? You may have to remove a lot more material from the seal casing to fit the ring between the seal and the retainer/adapter.

 

[2Biz]

Yea, I put this head (With Snap Rings) on a pump and it fit just fine with stock seal cases. Since they are .070" and .100" too deep from machining the head, there was plenty of clearance at the seal retainer since the snap ring is only .050" thick....I still like the idea of making spacers to put the seal case's back to stock depth. I ordered some 304 SS tubing from online metals that is exactly the right size for the washers. I just need to cut them off (on a lathe) and make sure they are flat and the right thickness..

It is hard to measure to see how deep in the head the seal case o'ring sits. I can tell you with a head like this one with the center counter-bore machined .100 deeper, the o'ring is very close to the relief in the casting.