Water Sotener Restricts Flow

[Ghetto Wash]

I've got a Fleck 2750 valve on a 14"x65" tank. When more than 3 SS bays are running the carwash is starved for water and all the pumps go dry. After some investigation, I determined that the softener was restricting the flow. I've got it bypassed so at least I can run. I don't know where or how to start to look where the restricion is. Would it be in the valve or resin bed? Best I can figure, that softener should flow about 40 gpm with a 15 psi pressure drop. I am flowing about 10-15 gpm with a 50 psi pressure drop. Any help?

 

[soapy]

What size inlet and outlet pipes are used on your softner? Mine are all 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch piped softners and I have never been starved for water.

 

[Champion]

water softner restricts flow

Specs for your softner unit:
Fleck 2750 1 Inch Timer Control Valve Water Softener 110000 Grain Capacity

14x65 resin tank
3.5 cubic feet of resin
22 gpm service flow rate
4 gpm backwash flow rate
Floor Space Required is 30x15x73
Shipping Weight is 280 lbs

This is insufficient capacity.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

Specs for your softner unit:
Fleck 2750 1 Inch Timer Control Valve Water Softener 110000 Grain Capacity

14x65 resin tank
3.5 cubic feet of resin
22 gpm service flow rate
4 gpm backwash flow rate
Floor Space Required is 30x15x73
Shipping Weight is 280 lbs

This is insufficient capacity.

22gpm as a lot smaller flow than what I thought. I agree it is small, even marginal. But insufficient capacity? 6 bays at 3gpm each is 18gpm plus ro + wringer sink. The wash is 10 years old, as is the softener. If it was a capacity problem I think it would have raised it ugly head before now. Something must have changed - in the tank or valve.

Can valves fail, or get plugged and restrict flow? Is there some sort of strainer that might be plugged?

Can tanks get plugged and restrict flow? It is just water flowing through so I would think probably not, but I don't know.

 

[pitzerwm]

Put a "storage tank" in that will cover you in those rush times, cheaper than buying a bigger or parallel softener.

 

[Randy]

Funny that you should have the same problem a friend mine had last Thursday. He was getting low flow and low pressure. Turned out that the media in his 5 year old water softener had turned to a “Jello” like material. He had to change the resin and gravel inside the water softener to get the flow back up to acceptable rate. Once he got the resin and gravel changed out its working great, making real good water now and the flow rate is back up to where it used to be. If it’s 10 years old and the resin has never been changed I’d say it’s about time.

 

[MEP001]

You may have to take the head off and get a sample of the softener resin. It does break down over time and impedes flow. It's fairly easy and not real expensive to do.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

I've replaced softeners that were 20 years old and the resin in them looked new. I guess it depends on the quality or brand of resin.

Sounds like a good next step - next day or two and I'll grab a sample of resin out of the tank and see what it looks like. I'll try and post back.

Bill - I thought of that this morning when reading the weep thread where there is a 1" line and a repressure pump. I'm going to look at the resin first.

 

[Randy]

My friend said that the resin at the top looked good, it didn't look like "Jello" until they got about half way down. He also said the retention element was plugged with “goo.” I'd make plans to change out the resin and gravel.

 

[MEP001]

I've replaced softeners that were 20 years old and the resin in them looked new. I guess it depends on the quality or brand of resin.

Chlorine in the water will break down the resin. I've replaced the resin in a 4 year old softener that was so broken down, 2/3rds of it was gone and the rest poured out like melted butter.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

People are idiots!

Went to remove the softener today and empty the resin. One of the valves for the bypass is on the wrong side of the union. Now I need to either make a plug and a union half or put the valve in the correct place. It's never as easy as it should be.

When I have it empty and the valve off, is there anything I should do or look at in the valve?

 

[MEP001]

Probably not. Whenever I've seen a problem with the seals and spacers, it didn't restrict flow, it just caused it to not brine properly and not make soft water. If it's been softening the water throughout this problem, the head should be fine. It is easy and inexpensive to replace the seals, but it doesn't require removing the head so it's not something to worry about while you have it off.

 

[Randy]

Ghetto Wash, Do you have an update on your Water Softener problems?

 

[Ghetto Wash]

Ghetto Wash, Do you have an update on your Water Softener problems?

Yes.

I removed it today and removed all the resin and gravel. No definite "jello", but maybe a bit slimy. I know the resin is usually slick (not really slick, but kind of slippery probably because your holding a bunch of small balls). It didn't seem quite right compared to other used resin I've removed before. Or maybe I was just looking for a problem there. Nothing obvious. New resin should be here in a day or two and I'll put it back on line and keep you informed.

One thing I did notice was the center pipe was installed about a half inch too long. When the valve was put on it bowed the pipe and pushed the bottom strainer over to the side of the tank instead of centered at the bottom. Perhaps this pushed it out of the gravel and into the resin where it got plugged. When I removed it it didn't appear plugged, though.

 

[MEP001]

If you haven't thrown out all the resin yet, take a pinch of it and roll and squeeze it between your fingers. If it's broken down, it will turn into powder. Good resin won't do that.

The tube being perfectly centered shouldn't matter, but you can always cut a little off. It shouldn't push the strainer off-center anyway - if it was, it was likely installed that way.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

If you haven't thrown out all the resin yet, take a pinch of it and roll and squeeze it between your fingers. If it's broken down, it will turn into powder. Good resin won't do that.

Bingo..........

Good thing I'm a slob. Went by the wash tonight and found many small "sample piles" on the pump room floor. Rub the resin between my fingers and it turns to powder.

I feel better about my fix now. New resin should be here tommorrow.

 

[cleaning up mud]

A few months ago we had our softners rebedded due to low water pressure. The resin was jello!

 

[Rudy]

I guess I'm about to joint the rebed the resin club. Today was a killer day, and with everything running, I get 50 psi in front of the softener's, and 14psi after. The RO kept kicking off due to low pressure. The units are 18 years old, and still soften properly (the resin's never been changed).

The softener tanks are huge....4 1/2 feet tall and about 22" in diameter.

These things have to be incredibly heavy. What's the trick to getting the water/resin out. There are two unions which will allow me to disconnect the control head, but we'll still have to "scoot" the tank away several inches in order to remove the head. This doesn't look easy.

Is there a trick?

 

[cleaning up mud]

It isnt easy! we used a shop vac to suck the resin out after we siphoned the water out. By the size of your tanks it looks like each one should take about 9 cuft. of resin. Plan for a days work.

 

[cleaning up mud]

Just make sure when you do it you take everything out including the gravel and inspect the screen on the pick up tube.