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carlos69

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Hi all, i am new in this area and have read some interesting articles here, it just so happens that i am thinking of purchasing a tunnel system and the distributor in my country in europe is supplying jcoleman's hanna systems. Could someone please help and tell me if their tunnel systems are good cos after reading some of the threads on jcoleman im not sure. Please advise on a good company for tunnel systems.

thanks again
 

Greg Pack

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Carlos I have not owned any Hanna/Coleman tunnel equipment so I can't comment from that perspective. But tunnel equipment is simple and I think would work fine if set up by an experienced crew. Hanna has been around a long time. I would prefer other brands, but wouldn't be scared to purchase one with a Hanna system.
 

Chiefs

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You need to perform due diligence on this one. While I am sure that Coleman and Hanna can supply your needs effectively. Given your lack of experience, distributor assistance and availability will be critical. If you are serious about looking elsewhere I would try to develop a list of questions that you need answers to and send them to the companies/distributors. Only once you have the answers to your questions, can you properly begin to compare which company/ies suit you best from to adequately evaluate both the various companies and the equipment they offer.


I'll mention a few pet peeves of mine.

1) Look out for the "Installation" Trap. Typically this involves you being quoted say 10 or 15% for "installation". This really means erection of the equipment and does not include any of the plumbing and eletrical work which I would estimate at about 25-30% of your cost of equipment. This is hwy items like motor control centers are so important to have in your quote.

2) Go front wheel pull instead of rear wheel push - if possible then leave 25-30' of empty conveyor before the vehicle goes through the CTA and pre-soak. This permits quick and easy loading, as well as plenty of time to conduct the transaction as well as perform any vehicle prepping that you may want to perform. This way ensures an uniterrupted flow of cars and the ability to ensure the best possible wash no matter what shows up.

3) High pressure arches that encompass the entire vehicle can go a long way to automatically prepping vehicles before they ever get to your cloth equipment. This automated prepping by removing virtually all the dirt and most of the roadfilm, allows your cloth equipment to be more effective and stay cleaner as it can now do what cloth does best, polish vehicles. This means that the pre-soak, foam and high pressure come BEFORE any cloth.
 

carlos69

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Thanks again for this advice, can i ask why front wheel pull instead of rear wheel push?

I have also come across a company called AVW who seem pretty good but being in europe i obviously need strong aftersales support which i hope i can get.

Thanks for your time.
 

carlos69

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Hi Chiefs, thanks for the advice you gave me, after some research i think AVW have good products if they can offer me the support and parts i will need.

Can i just ask 2 question

1) How do you feel about belt conveyors as opposed to Roller correlator?

2)You mentioned pre-soak,foam and high pressure before cloth, why dont manufacturers offer their systems this way if it is the best way??

regards

carlos
 

Earl Weiss

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I would suggest you talk to other operators in surrounding areas and see who is happy with distributor support.

Also, In this area, if you have the room, rear wheel push is a lot more popular than front wheel pull.
 

carlos69

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i had a look at tommy they are pretty dear i thought cant i just buy from AVW?
 

captain cw

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Research the distributor. Most tunnel lines are pretty good. You need to know that someone will be there for you seven days a week. Even if it's just a phone call. Rear wheel push is better if you have the length available.
 

Chiefs

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They don't appreciate the synergy of cleaning created by placing high pressure before the cloth. Doing it this equals an automated vehicle prepping system. The reasoning is that high pressure prepping (however it is applied - manually or automatically) produces a cleaner car and more satisfied customer. If they didn't believe that they, would not do it? Prepping takes time and costs volume. Auto Prepping lets you limit manual prepping to only vehicles that present the greatest challenge (heavy mud, heavy bugs, bird droppings, snow and ice), instead of every vehicle you wash.

I prefer front wheel pull for several reasons. First, you set your equipment up the same way as you would in a rear wheel push layout with the first arch some 27-30' from roller up. Now you need to get only 6' of the vehicle on line instead of the entire vehicle. once loaded, the roller is called for, and the vehicle starts down the conveyor. This gives you some 18-20' of area to perform any prepping you feel necessary while the vehicle is moving. In rear wheel push you cannot start the vehicle until the prepping is finished. In front wheel pull this vehicle is moving while being prepped and the next vehicle loaded as soon as the rear safety roller comes up behind the back wheel. On busy days, this allows you to keep your line of cars always moving. If on a busy day you have gaps between cars of one car length or more, the your wash volume suffers mightily. An 80 car per hour conveyor speed translates to only 50 actual cars washed each hour instead of 75-80. Then what operators usually do, is turn up the line speed to compensate for the lack of volume. Thus to do 75 cars an hour a conveyor speed of 110 is required and all of a sudden cars are not coming out as well cleaned, rinsed or as dry.
 

carlos69

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I have been on this forum just a few days now and while i have had some very useful information it is quite clear that there is quite alot of conflicting information about things that seem like after years in the game people should agree on, such as front wheel pull or rear wheel push, how hard is it???? Maybe i should just get some pretty ladies in bikini's and give them some high quality sponges LOL!!!!!
 

Earl Weiss

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I have been on this forum just a few days now and while i have had some very useful information it is quite clear that there is quite alot of conflicting information about things that seem like after years in the game people should agree on, such as front wheel pull or rear wheel push, how hard is it???? Maybe i should just get some pretty ladies in bikini's and give them some high quality sponges LOL!!!!!
Well, perhaps if you had been in the industry longer you would know that if you ask five car wash operators a question, you get 10 opinions and all may be right.

There are varius factors at play depending on the natue of the location. This might involve anything from physical layout to marketing. If you have the room, you can accomplish everything Bill said with rear wheel push, but your conveyor would need to be 20 feet longer. In 3 locations I run the conveyor 20 feet or so outside the entrance of the building to get this extra room. Also, with a fairly straight run and rear wheel push, the correlator is irrelevant because the car is driven all the way onto the conveyor. Another factor is manual prepping. Bill touts front wheel to give more room for the prep. No manual prep? Then no advantage there!

Where do you collect the $ ? Advance pay stations or at the conveyor. With advanc epay stations the customer follows the car ahead and the roller comes up as soon as the rear wheel passes the lift out door. So, again no advantage. If you collect at the conveyor the car ahead is traveling forward as the payment is handled, so there may be some advantage. Have to chew on it for a while.
 

Waxman

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The reason why you get so many answers is because carwashing is very complicated and not an easy and simple busines as some new investors think it is.

I did the bulk of my research on my own and without the help of this forum. Many have done the same. While the forum is wonderful for instant advice, it is no substitute for performing your own due diligence.

Attend some trade shows. Visit non-competing carwashes. Talk to non-competing operators. Buy them lunch and bend their ear; better yet, let them bend yours.

Go and work at a conveyorized automatic to feel the pulse of that particular business model.

There are no shortcuts so do not expect any.

We all paid our dues (and continue to do so every day) and that is why we're entitled to our varying and not-so-humble opinions!
 
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In response to push or pull, if you would prefer cars pushing each other thru your car wash go with pull.I have never seen a pull system work effectively especially on large cars and trucks.
 

Chiefs

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You're welcome to come to Cleveland and see it being done. We've done it this way for over 20 years - Oh there and here is one more reason why I like it - no roller on demand. We use a tape switch just a couple of feet inside the tunnel. Front wheel goes over it, 1-2 rollers come up. Back wheel rolls over it 1-2 more rollers come up. There is no bigger wash volume killer than putting the decision as to when the roller comes up and the vehicle starts moving in the hands of any attendant. They'll stand and talk if someone comes in they know. They'll panhandle the customer for tips by doing extra tasks and take their good ole time doing those tasks. All the while customers behind him are wating and the clock is ticking and volume and revenue are going down the drain.

Then as I said, because of the delays and loss of volume with roller on demand, often times an operator will say "Well, yes we are running a 100car an hour line speed but we're only washing 50. So since its a very busy day, let's turn up the conveyor to 120 or 140 wash 60 or 70 an hour. the downside here though is that because his system is only set up to effectively wash 80-90 cars per hour, cars begin to come out less clean, less rinsed, and less dry and customer satisfaction takes a hit - which they will remember. It is absolutely critical to strive to achieve vehicles that are just as clean, rinsed and dry on a 1,000 car day as they are on a 100 car day. Line speed and hourly wash volume should always be within at most 10% of one another. This means on a busy day, we don't have time for idle chit chat or anyone having to make a decision as to when to send the car through. Its volume time and if you don't do it on peak wash days, you'll never make it up.
 

Ross wash

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Tunnels

SOme good discussion here and i found that these are all true, There are many good equipment lines out there and they all can wash a car. the key is finding someone you can work with, you mentioned Tommy's and they do have a master rep in Europe but that doesnt mean to go that route. Try to find out who they have out there and interview them. Look at some of there work out there and make your own evaluation. THe belt systems are becomming more popular and and nice for shorter tunnels, other wise in my opinion a rear wheel push seems to be the smoothest for the customer. Find someone who is in the buisness and can help guide you in the right direction. I also find that being a hands on operator is important (not nessessary)
 

my2cents

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Unless I missed it, you did not mention which country within Europe. There are some quality manufacturers here in the states that have excellent distributors and manufacturing partners in different countries within Europe. I would stay away from one distributor that handled all of Europe vs. a distributor who conducted business only in your country. As in the US, you need distributor who is close and knows how business is conducted in your country and exactly what your customers require in addition to building and permitting requirements.

Obviously a quality distributor is the key to your purchasing decision so a bad local guy could be worse than a master distributor. The point is to find someone who knows the business, his competition and has a passion for his customers to succeed.

If you state your country, I can send a name your way.
 

Stlcarwashguy

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I rep both in St Louis, I like the curved arches but the AVW is sound, simple equipment.. I have had trouble with front wheel pull, it tends to turn the front wheel to the right and push the car off the conveyor, no problem like this on the rear wheel push.. front saves some space if you are tight, but conveyor alignment is key...
 

dirty harry

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Chiefs, I agree with your concept of high pressure before the friction. It's a win-win layout.
I am curious about front wheel pull though. In years past, a front wheel pull was notorious for the cars tracking and jumping rollers. I know that conveyor design has not changed much over the years, so do the newer cars react differently?
 
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