In-Bay and Vac Station Lights

[Kevin Reilly]

I've been replacing the 320W bulbs and ballasts with 250W in the Scottsdales and the visible reduction in light output is minimal. I use a coated bulb with a warmer light; even though it's rated less light output the CRI is better. There's not a single CFL that will fit in these fixtures and put out more than a fraction of the light you'd want - I just ordered four 42-watt CFL's for another purpose and I plan to test-fit them into one Scottsdale to see how it does. I did this once before with the regular 23W you can get at Sam's until I could get a ballast in - the light wasn't anywhere near enough, but it was better than leaving it dark over the changer.

MEP do you have a photo of the before and after pics of your scottsdale's? Did you buy the bulb from "1000 lights" or did you get them locally?

In the last 6 months we put up pole lights for the yard at a couple of locations. Our reasoning was because we had dark areas at some of our locations and wanted to light up the whole yard and was primarily done for security and visual from the street.

 

[2Biz]

Did you have them made or were they in your fixture? I know it would make a difference. Did you buy them or were they already in your fixture?[/B]

My fixtures are Hubbels...They came with the reflectors. As you can see, even with changing to a medium base socket, I don't think I have enough room for a 105w bulb. I get plenty of light, even with 2 fixtures per bay....But I also have white Extrutech Wall panels too. The panels help reflect light. I've seen washes with brick walls. Brown...The brick soaks up the light and doesn't reflect it... What you have on your walls and ceilings also has to be taken into consideration.

 

[MEP001]

MEP do you have a photo of the before and after pics of your scottsdale's? Did you buy the bulb from "1000 lights" or did you get them locally?

I never took pics, but I will the next time I'm there when it's dark. I order everything from 1000bulbs.com - neither Home Depot or Lowe's carry what we need for these conversions, and specialty lighting shops are way more expensive.

When I first did a 320W to 250W conversion, I just wanted to see how it looked so I ordered the Sola brand ballast kit and the "Plus Rite" bulb, all because they were the least expensive. I couldn't be more satisfied with both products - I'll NEVER use an Advance ballast again.

This was one of the last GE bulbs that just failed:

 

[Kevin Reilly]

My fixtures are Hubbels...They came with the reflectors. As you can see, even with changing to a medium base socket, I don't think I have enough room for a 105w bulb. I get plenty of light, even with 2 fixtures per bay....But I also have white Extrutech Wall panels too. The panels help reflect light. I've seen washes with brick walls. Brown...The brick soaks up the light and doesn't reflect it... What you have on your walls and ceilings also has to be taken into consideration.

2Biz you hit the nail on the head. All of my washes are a king block and were attractive years ago, but they are dark and that certainly takes away from the lighting. My wife brought that up when we were cruising one evening checking on the lighting and we did discuss painting or panels. So that is something we will be looking into.

Also I understand they make a 110W CFI that is the same dimension as the 85W. I at least want to try it and see if we can make it fit. I will also look into the reflectors which I know will make a difference.

 

[Randy]

Now for the problems we had. The lamps were really tight in the fixture when it came time to close them. We eventually broke 2 of the CFL's. We tried bending the brace that held the socket a little and finally realized we could unscrew the socket from the frame, reverse it which would give us close to 1/2" more. (Photo below shows the foot of the socket. The screws are under the socket as opposed to being under the wire!) It was not fun but after seeing them lit up this evening and not losing any visual light is a win-win for us. I will order more of the 85W to finish this project.

For the other 4 locations I would like to put in the 105W CFL's. They are the same fixture. Anybody done this in this particular fixture, or any suggestions or recommendations? I'm not prepared to buy the fixtures that Scott is using and our locations are already well lit. I would like to keep them well light, except do it with less of an expense, besides removing all the junk that's in these fixtures would be an improvement in itself!

Kevin,
It looks like you could turn the socket bracket so the bulb sits in the fixture from corner to corner, this might give you a little more room.

 

[Kevin Reilly]

Kevin,
It looks like you could turn the socket bracket so the bulb sits in the fixture from corner to corner, this might give you a little more room.

You know Randy, we did use 1 screw in one of the bases and tilted it up, but I've had more time to think about the install and I'm going to try something else. There is a mound dead center of the fixture that holds the reflector in with a screw and I'm going to cut that out and that would make more room to shove the center of the reflector back. It has to do with the width of the bulb and closing the door.

 

[Kevin Reilly]

I called yesterday to reorder more 85W CFL's and they're back ordered to the end of February. I also ordered 12 105 CFL's and I will play with them but they certainly won't fit in our bay fixtures, but will try them in a few misc fixtures that I have. Bummer I'm going to need at least 100 of the 85's and my daughter is chomping at the bit to get started (as am I!)

 

[MEP001]

MEP do you have a photo of the before and after pics of your scottsdale's? Did you buy the bulb from "1000 lights" or did you get them locally?

I was finally at the wash after dark, of course the 250W I just put in in the drying shed that would have made the best comparison quit working

These two photos are taken of the same bay. One light is a brand-new 250W pulse-start metal halide (It's noticeably the brightest light in the place), the other one in the bay is four of these clustered as close to the center as I could get them. See if you can tell which is which.

 

[Kevin Reilly]

MEP your pic 1 has 4 250 MH in the bay and pic 2 is 4 45 CFL's? Is that right? If so that's really neat, but my problem is 4 of our locations are a red block which of course doesn't reflect light, it just absorbs it! I'll get a pic up when I get out @ night again.

 

[2Biz]

Mep...Comparing the two fixtures (on my computer) one looks just as bright as the other. It's hard to see any difference. So I'm really wondering what your point it is or what your trying to convey...From previous posts, you seem to be against using CFL's...

One fixture is drawing 250w and the other is drawing 168w. Thats 82w difference and will save you $$$ every month...If it was my wash and I was paying the bills, I'd make the change. Although, I would use a larger CFL and not use (4) CFL's in one fixture...

There are other benifits to CFL's not limited to energy savings. There is a lot of heat output differences in the two. The CFL is a lot easier on the fixture and internal wiring. There is no where near the heat output of a CFL compared to the Metal Halides...

 

[MEP001]

MEP your pic 1 has 4 250 MH in the bay and pic 2 is 4 45 CFL's?

Mep...Comparing the two fixtures (on my computer) one looks just as bright as the other.

The two photos are taken of the same bay, one from the front and one from the rear.

So I'm really wondering what your point it is or what your trying to convey...From previous posts, you seem to be against using CFL's...

What I've tried to say in previous posts is that comparing a new 105W CFL to a 4 year old 175W metal halide is like comparing apples to rotten oranges. I've been replacing the bulbs and capacitors about every two years on average - the four CFL's I installed are brighter than any of the remaining 320W pulse-start metal halides, and at half the watts and more than adequate light I'm perfectly happy with it.

Although, I would use a larger CFL and not use (4) CFL's in one fixture...

I would have, but there's not one that will give off anywhere near as much light as a metal halide and fit in the fixture. I also wanted to keep as much light output as possible.

...my problem is 4 of our locations are a red block which of course doesn't reflect light, it just absorbs it!

The CFL conversion seems to cast more light down and less up on the ceiling. I also bought some aluminum which I'm going to polish and bend into a reflector to (hopefully) send even more light down where it's needed. I'll take more pics when that's done.

 

[2Biz]

What I've tried to say in previous posts is that comparing a new 105W CFL to a 4 year old 175W metal halide is like comparing apples to rotten oranges. I've been replacing the bulbs and capacitors about every two years on average - the four CFL's I installed are brighter than any of the remaining 320W pulse-start metal halides, and at half the watts and more than adequate light I'm perfectly happy with it.

Mep, This is funny. This is the first time you've had anything positive to say about converting to CFL's.

Originally, when I started these threads, I was looking for a cheaper alternative to the Metal halides. What came out of my testing was a light that was brighter, whiter, and was a lot cheaper to operate...

I'm glad we're finally on the same page here and hope you're able to reap the benifits of doing this conversion. In this business, we have to work smarter...I just haven't figured out how to not work so hard!

 

[MEP001]

Part of my concern over CFL's is that we do a lot of evening business in the summer. I've seen all the bays full at 11:00 at night, and I want to keep the bays well-lit for that. Replacing a 320W bulb rated for 30,000 lumens with one rated for 6,200 sounds ridiculous, but if what I've done holds up for three years it'll save a ton of money on the electric bill and not lose enough light to be a problem.

 

[MEP001]

New pictures after adding a reflector to the fixture with four 42W CF bulbs. Same bay, left is from front, right is from rear. One light is a brand-new 250W bulb and ballast kit, the other is the CFL's.

 

[Kevin Reilly]

MEP That is will lit and hard to tell the difference. I just got the 105 CFL's in and will be limited to some fixtures we have on the lot that they will fit into.

As for the other locations if I'm going to use the 85 CFL's I'm also going to have to change to an e-23 (smaller receiver) because the rest of the locations are mogul base. If I use the reducer the lamp will not fit in the fixture! So will order one and play with it in the shop.

Electricity in Stockton is with Pacific Gas & Electricity and they are terribly expensive and requesting more increases thru the PUC.

Sacramento (CA 45 miles north of us) is a utility district and their electrical cost is about 40 to 45% cheaper than Stockton. So we have to do what we can to cut costs. On occasion even my house bill will reach $500. plus in a month!

 

[Randy]

Kevin, I saw on EBay some 175 watt metal Halide light fixtures that have been converted to 105 watt CFL’s. If you need some fixtures these are a good buy.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

four of these clustered as close to the center as I could get them.

MEP,

I thought that was a great idea. It looks like my fixture size is the same as yours and I had been holding off trying CFL's because I couldn't get one that was adequate to fit in the fixture. After your brainstorm of 4 bulbs in the fixture, I tried it. I just went to Home Depot and got 40 Watt (150 Watt equivalent) and 23 Watt (100 Watt equivalent) for a quick test with poor results.

It wasn't a fair test because the color on the Home Depot bulbs was only 2700K, not the 4000K that I think is needed so I'll redo it with the bulbs that you linked to.

A question though. The 40 Watt bulbs that I purchased at Home Depot appear to be the same size as the bulbs you used. I could only get two to fit, so in my little trial run I used two 40's and two 23's. Could you post a picture on how you got four bulbs to fit in that fixture?

 

[MEP001]

It wasn't a fair test because the color on the Home Depot bulbs was only 2700K, not the 4000K that I think is needed so I'll redo it with the bulbs that you linked to.

I felt the same way after I tried four 23W 2700K bulbs. The output was ridiculously weak.

The bottom of the bulb is about 1/4" away from the lens.

 

[Ghetto Wash]

Thanks for the pic MEP, however I think I'm stuck with what I've got.

We have the same fixture, however yours is the "flush" version. Nothing is above the roof canopy and you have access to that large ballast box above the lens. Mine has the same lens, but only the lens is below the roof canopy. The ballast is above the roof canopy and I can only use the space within the lens for the new bulbs and sockets.

I still might try two 40 Watt's and two 23 Watt's with the higher color to see what it looks like.

 

[2Biz]

You might try to get a higher color bulb than 4000K. I used 5000K in my fixtures and I think you can even get 6500K...Just a thought...