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Boiler Replacement Options - Win a $25 Restuarant Card!
- Thread starter RockyMountain
- Start date
2Biz
Thread Killer!
Randy,
Do you use this valve for switching between cold and hot water? It only has a 3/8 outlet..Is this big enough? I guess if its pressurized it would be ok, but for a gravity feed system, I'm wondering if it would restrict flow.
RockyMountain
Member
Not sure what question I didn't answer, but the reason I tried the NO was because I didn't have the extra wire from the bay for the rinse solenoid. So no matter what I am going to need a Normally Closed solenoid on the rinse side and figure out a way to open it when rinse is selected.
You are suggesting to use the wire that turns the motor on to also open the solenoid and then break that connection when the HP soap is selected, correct?
I know this is a delayed response, but I was busy fly fishing for rainbows! Anyone want to go?
MEP001
Well-known member
That's what I had to assume.RockyMountain said:
I've done some similar things with an Omron relay from mouser.com (about $6, just soldered wires onto the terminals).RockyMountain said:
This should help:
Motor output from switch goes to terminal labeled Motor, normally-closed side of circuit labeled Rinse goes to rinse solenoid. Soap output from switch goes to hot of relay coil (labeled Soap). Right now when your rinse is selected and you're rinsing with hot water, only the motor starter is energized. The same power is shunted through the relay to energize the rinse solenoid, and when soap is selected the relay is energized and the circuit to the rinse solenoid is broken.
RockyMountain
Member
The boiler quit leaking. Probably temporarily, but since I'll be the one putting in the new demand heater, I am on hold right now.
Unfortunately, my nuclear sub was built 28 years ago and upgrading systems brings a challenge. Direct plumbing hot water would mean a new injection system for soap as well as designing a bullet proof hot water supply system that on very rare occasions would need to supply 16 gallons a minute, as we do have a fourth outside bay that is only used from late spring through the fall. Holding tanks with a back-up cold water release for these rare times will avoid having to shell out the $ for such a system while keeping hot water for customers 95+% of the time. So figuring out a way to open a solenoid without running new wires may be simple to you, but with my limited electrical abilities, it presents a challenge.
RockyMountain
Member
Here is a picture of my current pump stand set-up.
The picture in the middle is one of the pumps with then new set-up (thanks 2Biz and MEP001). The two pictures on either side are above the pumps. I'm assuming the motors are 120 volt that are turned on by a 24 volt signal when the dial is on rinse or HP soap. Honestly I don't know how this happens or even where it happens! Is a set up like this familiar to anyone?
The picture in the middle is one of the pumps with then new set-up (thanks 2Biz and MEP001). The two pictures on either side are above the pumps. I'm assuming the motors are 120 volt that are turned on by a 24 volt signal when the dial is on rinse or HP soap. Honestly I don't know how this happens or even where it happens! Is a set up like this familiar to anyone?
MEP001
Well-known member
I can't tell anything by those tiny pictures. You can sign up for a free account at imageshack.us and post them full size.
The contactors have 24V coils in them just like a solenoid. You would take the same 24V power that engages the contactor and run that to the relay as indicated. Same with the soap solenoid.
The contactors have 24V coils in them just like a solenoid. You would take the same 24V power that engages the contactor and run that to the relay as indicated. Same with the soap solenoid.
RockyMountain
Member
I thought those pics might turn out better. Try these.
2Biz
Thread Killer!
The contactors look like 3-phase. Do you know how to use a voltage meter?
The terminal strips are connection points to and from your rotary switch. You really need to record or label each connection to help with upgrades or trouble shooting. Its very important to know what connection goes where and what it does.
2Biz
Thread Killer!
I know its pretty over whelming the first time you set foot in the ER after buying a CW....I was like, what the hell did I get myself into?
One of the first things I did was document the wiring to and from the ER to the Bay Switch...This document helped tremendiously:
http://bcoweb.com/photos/8+pos+dix.pdf
KR doesn't have this exact diagram on their site anymore, but I kept a copy on my PC for reference. I marked the diagram with the color code of wire and the function that matched the output on the rotary switch. It will be very valuable to have this when you need to trouble shoot....
One of the first things I did was document the wiring to and from the ER to the Bay Switch...This document helped tremendiously:
http://bcoweb.com/photos/8+pos+dix.pdf
KR doesn't have this exact diagram on their site anymore, but I kept a copy on my PC for reference. I marked the diagram with the color code of wire and the function that matched the output on the rotary switch. It will be very valuable to have this when you need to trouble shoot....
mjwalsh
6 bay SS w/laundromat
RockyMountain - Skilled Fly Fisherman,
Maybe it's just me but I would say that it is much more likely that your main pump motors are wired up for higher voltage than 120VAC. Check to see If you have a double wide or triple wide breaker vs a single 120 breaker for each bay in your electrical panel to somewhat verify.
A very affordable mulitmeter will help you to see how the current flows along with simple schematics &/or diagrams.
Be careful ... gauge your limits as you go ... you do not want to: 1. electrocute someone including yourself 2. you want to avoid frying expensive electrical components. 3. not properly consider the USA constitution.
mike
RockyMountain
Member
It's an 8 position rotary switch.
If the unit is a 1 second delay, it doesn't work. As the dial is spun you can hear all the solenoids opening and closing immediately. This is on my list for a future fix/upgrade.
RockyMountain
Member
I'm adequate with my voltage meters. When I find out how the strips are wired (and I find rinse) can I simply pull wires from there to the NC solenoid?
2Biz
Thread Killer!
I would start with the terminal strip. You should be able to trace the 24v coil wire from your 3-phase contactor back to the terminal strip. Surely all the wires from the rotary switch come into the ER and hook up to the terminal strip. The picture you posted indicates this. Basically what I was calling a control board is what you have. Terminal strips that connect the rotary switch connections to all your solenoids and 3 phase contactors to your pumps...
Using the diagram I linked to will help you figure out how the rotary switch and terminal strip are wired. Once you figure this out, it should be easy to pick up 24v rinse wires from the rotary.
Using the diagram I linked to will help you figure out how the rotary switch and terminal strip are wired. Once you figure this out, it should be easy to pick up 24v rinse wires from the rotary.
2Biz
Thread Killer!
The delay is for the motor contactor only...Its designed to help with "Rotary Switch Spinners". It will delay the motor start (So it won't start) when someone is spinning the rotary to a low pressure function. It helps with motor wear.
PaulLovesJamie
rural 5 bay SS
Not a lot of outdoorsmen on this forum (afaik), but I still cant believe nobody responded to that!! Nice fish, nice scenery!
I dont fish, but consider yourself warned that if you make that kind of "offer" for any big game you're going to wake up with me on your doorstep!
